Feldman: John, wouldn't you say that what we're dependent on we call reality and what we don't like we consider an intrusion in our life. Consequently, I feel that what's happening is that we're continually being intruded upon.
Cage: But that would make us very unhappy.
F: Or we surrender to it. And call it culture.
C: Call it culture?
F: Or whatever.
C: Give me an example. What would be an intrusion in your life that you would call culture?
F: Well this weekend we were on the beach, and on the beach these days are transistor radios blaring out rock and roll. All over.
C: Yes. And you didn't enjoy it?
F: Not particularly. I adjusted to it.
C: How?
F: By saying that... well, I thought of the sun and the sea as a lesser evil.
(Laughing)
C: Well, you know how I adjusted to that problem of the radio in the environment? Very much as the primitave people adjusted to the animals that frightened them and which probably, as you say, were intrusions. They drew pictures of them in their caves. And so I simply made a piece using radios. Now whenever I hear radios, even a single one-- not just twelve at a time, as you must have heard on the beach, at least-- I think they're all just playing my piece.
(Laughing)
F: That might help me next weekend.
C: And I listened to it with pleasure. And by pleasure I mean: I notice what happens. I can attend to it, rather than, as you say "surrender," I can rather pay attention and become interested in the... well what you're actually interested in is what superimposes what-- what happens at the same time together with what happens before and what happens after.
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